BAB009.TXT
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Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:15:21 -0800 (PST)
From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE))
Message-Id: <921213231521.6e33@VAX.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Hour-25
To: b5@iastate.edu
X-Vmsmail-To: MX%"b5@iastate.edu"
Maany of you probably know that JMS hosted a show called "Hour-25". Some of
you may be wondering what it is.
Hour-25 is a radio show which airs at 10:00pm Fridays on 90.7 FM. It is
broadcast throughout Southern and Central California. Its prime topic
is SF, though it will often go into sveral other genres such as fantasy
and horror. The hosts rotate so that when JMS was on the show, he would
only host about once a month. At that time there were, I believe, four
sets of hosts/cohosts.
When JMS was on he would talk about SF books, TV and movies. Occasionally
he would make cryptic remarks regarding some new show he was doing (I think
it was Babylon 2, or something like that). Actually he did entire show
about B5 with Ron Thorton. I wish I had taped it, but I was pretty
unfamiliar with the show back then. There is a guy who tapes all the shows.
Anyone interested can hear his address in the first half hour of the show.
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 00:12:46 -0500
From: cq401@cleveland.freenet.edu (Robert C. Ritter)
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: re:Mike okuda on B5
Reply-To: cq401@cleveland.freenet.edu (Robert C. Ritter)
I think there is a VERY GOOD reason for not filing suit AT THIS
TIME. A lawsuit at this time would tie up production on B5 as
well as DS9, and JMS wants to get his show on the air.
DS9 has also taken the tag line for B5 about the Final Frontier
and started using it as well.
If my memory is correct, the judge threw out the phony
accounting practices and Paramount WILL have to pay AB & Co.
I hope both shows are great, but my feelings are TNG & DS9
will both be suffering.
This IS the year of SF on television, with TNG, DS9, B5,
TIME TRAX, DOORWAYS ALL IN PRODUCTION and several other
pilots on the way.
--
Rob Ritter
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:26:09 -0500
From: "Ivan A. Gonzales" <wombat@eng.umd.edu>
Message-Id: <199212140626.AA06879@pepsi.eng.umd.edu>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda on B5
Rob Ritter writes:
>
> I think there is a VERY GOOD reason for not filing suit AT THIS
> TIME. A lawsuit at this time would tie up production on B5 as
> well as DS9, and JMS wants to get his show on the air.
I don't see why this would tie up either. TV shows have lawsuits
filed against them on occasion. Production doesn't stop. Nope. If
JMS is unwilling to try and prove his accusations in court, they
mean *nothing*. JMS is libeling two talented and repected creators/
producers, Michael Piller and Rick Berman, on what so far no one has
shown me any real evidence is anything more than coincidence. I'm sure
JMS believes (at least I hope so) that DS9 took ideas from his creation.
Fine, stop talking about it, and *do* something. Until, then, it's
impossible to confirm his allegations or for me to accept them. I have
little respect for someone who makes serious accusations and lets them
sit. Sorry. It's great PR, though, I'll give him that.
> DS9 has also taken the tag line for B5 about the Final Frontier
> and started using it as well.
Wouldn't that be the other way around? B5 took Star Trek's tag line
and starting using it to promote their show. Nothing wrong with that,
but you can't expect Paramount to promote a new Star Trek show *without*
using "The Final Frontier," a phrase instantly recongnizable by the most
of the population with Star Trek? I don't think so.
>
> I hope both shows are great, but my feelings are TNG & DS9
> will both be suffering.
I can't speak for DS9 (haven't seen it yet (-:), but it's going to be
pretty hard for either DS9 or B5 to achieve the quality of the top
TNG episodes. (Including the recent and excellent "Chain of Command Part
I," and what looks like an incredibly intense part II.) Both DS9 and
B5 have a tough act to follow in TNG.
> This IS the year of SF on television, with TNG, DS9, B5,
> TIME TRAX, DOORWAYS ALL IN PRODUCTION and several other
> pilots on the way.
Here's hoping it's *good* SF, not just SF.
Jose Gonzalez
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Date: 14 Dec 92 15:24:27 EST
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: B5 and DS9 (was Re:Mike Okuda on Hour-25)
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921214152427.541@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5.
> JMS is unwilling to try and prove his accusations in court, they
> mean *nothing*. JMS is libeling two talented and repected creators/
> producers, Michael Piller and Rick Berman, on what so far no one has
> shown me any real evidence is anything more than coincidence. I'm sure
> JMS believes (at least I hope so) that DS9 took ideas from his creation.
> Fine, stop talking about it, and *do* something. Until, then, it's
> impossible to confirm his allegations or for me to accept them. I have
> little respect for someone who makes serious accusations and lets them
> sit. Sorry. It's great PR, though, I'll give him that.
>
Have you actually read JMS's posts on the topic? He has _NOT_
accused either Piller or Berman of stealing from his show. They in
all probability did not ever see his concept and treatment - that was
shown to higher ups at Paramount. Also, he has stated that he has
the highest respect for both Piller and Berman, and doesn't think
they would ever do such a thing. So _he_ has not in any way libeled
them, for he has not accused them. Some people on the net have made
such accusations, but of course, there is no such evidence. I tend
to agree with JMS, myself, in that Piller and Berman did not copy any
conceptual stuff from B5.
However, it has been suggested that someone else at Paramount who
did see his proposal had some influence on the way DS9 developed, and
either consciously or unconsciously copied ideas from one to the
other. JMS has not ruled this out, nor has he made such an
accusation. The closest thing to one that he has ever made, to the
best of my knowledge, is wondering out loud if "such things can be
coincidence." Personally, I tend to think that this may likely be
the case.
Anyway, I'm sure that JMS and others are actively looking into
the matter, but in such cases, evidence is rather hard to come by.
At this point, there's really not much I've heard of to base a court
case on. So such allegations remain pure speculation, and probably
will remain as such in perpetuity. We can speculate all we want.
But don't unjustly accuse JMS of libel, and don't accuse someone of
just sitting on their ass, just because you don't _see_ them doing
anything. And I hardly think he's bringing this up for PR purposes -
check out his posts to Genie on the topic from September. They ought
to clear up several of these "misconceptions." (at least that's how I
read the previous post)
Hope this all made coherant sense.
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:26:55 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda, Rick S. & B5 vs DS9
Message-Id: <0003AB6E.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
One of the problems with making comparisons of the two shows and some of the
similarities is that some of them are logical things for a large space station
with many different alien cultures. However, on the other hand, if they do
have a bathroom scene in ST:Ds9 similar to the one Joe has described at cons
(warning lights and sirens, etc.) then we can be sure that one was ripped off.
I know that Rick Sternbach watched Joe's presentation on B5 at WesterColt back
in July. From having seen the ST:Ds9 electronic press kit, there doesn't seem
to be much similarities in the main characters. My main concern in getting the
word out on B5 is that the uninformed don't see it as a ripoff of ST:Ds9.
---
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:24:46 -0800
Message-Id: <9212150024.AA09462@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com>
From: chris@univrs.decnet.lockheed.com
To: "b5@iastate.edu"@eagle.decnet.lockheed.com
Cc: CHRIS@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: DS9 copying B5, or vice versa
I think I heard (can't prove this) that a while back, Majel Barrett-Roddenberry
had made some comments in the other direction, saying that -B5- was awfully
similar to -DS9-. This is rather silly given that B5 was pitched to Paramount
long before the DS9 concept was developed. Does anybody know the details? I
haven't heard any similar comments from her or the ST people since that
long-ago faint recollection, so if she -did- make comments like that she may
have since realized how foolish it was.
I was just sort of chuckling about this after reading all this heated
discussion about JMS suing (or not) the DS9 people etc ... I do think this
is one of the areas where we need to be careful to keep our facts straight.
Cheers,
-Chris
---
Subject: DSN and Babylon Five
To: b5@iastate.edu (Babylon Five Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:39:53 PST
From: Mark Holtz <mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]
Message-Id: <9212142039.AA27235@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US>
Look, I'm sure that that are similarities between Babylon Five and
Trek's Deep Space Nine. But, can we drop the thread of possible
legal action between the two series, and let each series be judged
by what appears on the screen. I am looking forward to both series,
and will be making a "List of Lists" of Babylon Five when
(IhopeIhoopeIhope) it becomes a series this fall.
--
The Keeper Of: * The Simpson's Episode Guide
* Star Trek TOS/TAS, TMS, TNG, DSN List of Lists
* Quantum Leap List of Lists
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:03:24 -0500
From: "Ivan A. Gonzales" <wombat@eng.umd.edu>
Message-Id: <199212150503.AA12317@coke.eng.umd.edu>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: B5 and DS9
Matt Schmitt writes:
> Have you actually read JMS's posts on the topic? He has _NOT_
> accused either Piller or Berman of stealing from his show.
I've read the ones posted here. Everything else I got from letters on
this list and from the net. I'm happy to hear that some of what I
read or inferred may be in error.
> They in
> all probability did not ever see his concept and treatment - that was
> shown to higher ups at Paramount. Also, he has stated that he has
> the highest respect for both Piller and Berman, and doesn't think
> they would ever do such a thing. So _he_ has not in any way libeled
> them, for he has not accused them.
Ok, this is my mistake then, and I apologize for *my* accusations.
> Some people on the net have made
> such accusations, but of course, there is no such evidence. I tend
> to agree with JMS, myself, in that Piller and Berman did not copy any
> conceptual stuff from B5.
Perhaps then, some people who are more in the know than myself can post
repsonses to such accusations when they appear on the net. This is how
really nasty rumors get started and people start blending them with fact
and JMS's views.
> However, it has been suggested that someone else at Paramount who
> did see his proposal had some influence on the way DS9 developed, and
> either consciously or unconsciously copied ideas from one to the
> other. JMS has not ruled this out, nor has he made such an
> accusation. The closest thing to one that he has ever made, to the
> best of my knowledge, is wondering out loud if "such things can be
> coincidence." Personally, I tend to think that this may likely be
> the case.
Hmmmmm.....He's not blaming Piller or Berman of anything *directly*,
but if they let themselves be influenced by this unnamed Paramount
bad guy, I don't think anyone would argue they were guilty of at
least borrowing some ideas.
> Anyway, I'm sure that JMS and others are actively looking into
> the matter, but in such cases, evidence is rather hard to come by.
> At this point, there's really not much I've heard of to base a court
> case on. So such allegations remain pure speculation, and probably
> will remain as such in perpetuity. We can speculate all we want.
> But don't unjustly accuse JMS of libel, and don't accuse someone of
> just sitting on their ass, just because you don't _see_ them doing
> anything. And I hardly think he's bringing this up for PR purposes -
> check out his posts to Genie on the topic from September. They ought
> to clear up several of these "misconceptions." (at least that's how I
> read the previous post)
> Hope this all made coherant sense.
Yep. I'd be happy to drop the whole thing, and I hope all this nonsense
dies down eventually, but it's just bothersome to see all these "DS9 is
a rip-off of B5" posts when no real evidence has been presented. I think
it hurts both shows.
Jose Gonzalez
---
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:40:29 -0500
To: b5@iastate.edu
From: duga@pacvax.pacersoft.com
Subject: Cinefantastique article...
I was just reading the B5 article in Cinefantastique and noticed a caption
on one of the pictures that read something like:
Cmdr. Sinclair and ??? examine a mysterious breach in the hull with a
tricorder.
Isn't "tricorder" a Trek term? Is this just Cinefantastiques name, or is it
the shows name for the device?
There's also a typo in one of the realistic adds they show for "resistered
telepaths".
Can't wait till this thing airs. Looks good...
--Brady
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From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:12:06 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Cinefantastique article...
Message-Id: <0003ACA8.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
The "tricorder" reference is the fault of the person who wrote the captions
for the pictures. They definitely should have utilized a spelling checker on
the text, they even spelled Straczynski's name wrong in a few places (which
isn't that hard to misspell, but in a magazine article about his show, they
should have made sure they spelled his name right.
---
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:57:43 EST
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda, Rick S. & B5 vs DS9
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921215135744.589@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5.
> to be much similarities in the main characters. My main concern in getting the
> word out on B5 is that the uninformed don't see it as a ripoff of ST:Ds9.
>
Here here! I agree - that's what we should be most concerned
about. Not whether or not any "ripping off" is going on, since it'd
be almost impossible to prove anyway, but making sure that people
don't see B5 as a quick imitation of DS9, which it most certainly is
not.
Thanks for (hopefully) getting us back on track, Lee.
---
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:25:18 MST
From: jacque@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Jacque Marshall)
Message-Id: <9212152125.AA15992@niwot.scd.ucar.EDU>
Received: by niwot.scd.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90)
id AA15992; Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:25:18 MST
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: an inspiration!
Cc: jacque@ncar.ucar.edu
In response to various comments about writing Warner and our
local stations after the pilot airs, it occured to me:
We're having a launching party for the pilot, and I plan
on bringing a box containing:
envelopes
paper
pens
stamps
addresses
so we can catch people while they're all fired up, and
make it as easy as possible for them to write in.
Apropos of which, does anybody know the address for
Warner? Also, is there a specific human we should be
addressing these letters to? (This might be a question
for somebody with GEnie access to pass on to JMS.)
--jm
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:06:18 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Writing campaing and such.
Message-Id: <0003BF09.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
In the question of writing to local stations and Warner Bros., that question
pops up on GEnie and Joe has said that he will post some addresses (and maybe
a FAX number or two) shortly before the B5 movie. He agreed with a suggestion
about contacting your local station, letting them know that you are looking
forward to the show (and the other PTEN shows).
Not much other news on GEnie of late. Main bits of info have been that the
music has been composed and is being (or has been) recorded and they plan to
do final editing the first week in January and have the movie comleted on
January 8th.
I did check with my local station here in Phoenix and their air date for the
B5 movie is Thursday, February 25th (the regular weekly PTEN shows will air
on Wednesdays here).
Joe is scheduled to appear at Gallifrey One Goes Forth the weekend of February
26-28th in Burbank, CA, which will be right after the movie airs. Here's
the details on Gallifrey One:
Gallifrey One Goes Forth Feb 26-28, 1993,
Burbank Airport Hilton, Burbank, CA. Confirmed Guests
include Nicola Bryant, John Levene, J.M. Dillard, J. Michael Straczynski,
David Gerrold, John Vornholt and Larry Stewart. Peter Davison is tentative,
schedule permitting. Other Doctor Who, Babylon 5 and Star Trek: Deep Space
Nine guests to be announced. Memberships: $40 til 2/1/93, $45 at the
door. Info: Gallifrey Conventions, P.O. Box 3021, North Hollywood, CA 91609
I have been to the first three Gallifrey Conventions and it has always been
a nice, small con (around 500 attendees). It's main focus is Doctor Who, but
there have always been a good number of L.A. area authors and other
surprises (last year, they had a panel on the American Red Dwarf pilot as well
as a presentation by J. Michael Straczynski on Babylon 5.). They do plan to
have some of the actors from Babylon 5 and possibly some from Deep Space Nine
(before Creation prices them out of the fan market).
---
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 08:41:51 MST
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Message-Id: <9212191541.AA11286@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Galifrey
Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com writes:
>they plan to do final editing the first week in January and have the
>movie comleted on January 8th.
Interesting.
>I did check with my local station here in Phoenix and their air date for the
>B5 movie is Thursday, February 25th (the regular weekly PTEN shows will air
>on Wednesdays here).
Great. That is the first solid date I have heard. Still quite a wait though.
>Joe is scheduled to appear at Gallifrey One Goes Forth the weekend of
>February 26-28th in Burbank, CA, which will be right after the movie airs.
>Here's the details on Gallifrey One:
> Memberships: $40 til 2/1/93, $45 at the door.
> I have been to the first three Gallifrey Conventions and it has always
> been a nice, small con (around 500 attendees).
I've been wanting to get to one, but...
>They do plan to have some of the actors from Babylon 5 and possibly some
>from Deep Space Nine (before Creation prices them out of the fan market).
Speaking of which, $40-45 is a pretty high price. It doesn't exactly
encourage one to drive over for the day to check things out...
At least the last Cretin con I went to (in all it's glory :) was only $8.
---