BAB008.TXT
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 07:59:46 MST
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Message-Id: <9212081459.AA03674@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: sfc/qvc
Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com writes:
>Next Sunday's edition of Sci-Fi Buzz on the Sci-Fi channel is supposed
>to have some stuff on Babylon 5, no word on how much, though.
It would have been on this weekend, but it was pre-empted. I will
certainly be watching, but I tend to doubt there will be much that
we have not already seen in the PTEN feed and Behind the Scenes.
But you never know I guess...
>Also, during the QVC Star Trek: Deep Space Nine show, Michael Piller was
>asked about the "competition" between B5 and DS9 and replied not unlike
>how Shatner replies when asked about ST:TNG. Along the lines of "I don't
>really know much about it..."
Right! I was really *hoping* somebody would get through with that question.
I wasn't particularly impressed with the answer, but what else could he say.
---
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Alien Languages and Steve Martin
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 07 Dec 92 11:46:00 PST."
<01GS17EYYEWW001D43@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU>
X-Face: %q"[Odr2u&o(@]W>9%kwwJ/Td+Ju5!en}ZHQ>G3)9%`RBr7Ct12Dj6LB\Qz@@j|YgfHymB~
Lc>qe:o+U{rh!RVuaYYd{+S4$8tPLu]Y$0<5x>rj-kuS"[eqLFME-('jwXR87s;A3I,=cW*D(><s+w
Yi%=%}H?|1mR`pc0qrR!<y:
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 92 07:37:29 PST
From: Michael P Urban <urban@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov>
KOSHELEV@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>
> I had hoped someone might have a connection to JMS and be able to ask him
> *exactly* what he was doing for alien languages. Considering ST's use
> of Marc Okrand to create Vulcan, Romulan and especially Klingon to provide
> a *realistic* background alien murmur noise, I don't see the damned concern
> in asking JMS if he has someone doing the same for him.
This is not quite an accurate portrayal of how ST came to use
Klingon; Marc Okrand created Klingon independently as a fannish activity;
only later did the `official' ST universe take advantage of his work.
> After all, he has consistently expressed a concern for realism in B5.
Coming up with a complete language just for `background alien murmur
noise' is a great deal of work that has very little payoff; rather
like coming up with a _detailed_ theory of cosmology and physics in
order to explain warp drive, or requiring a detailed Vulcan physiology
to account for the nerve-pinch or mind-meld. That sort of effort
seems to me like the realism tail wagging the story-telling dog.
Sufficient `realism' can be achieved by devising a phonology rather
than a language.
---
To: Colin Stobbe <sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca>
Cc: B5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: B5 Alien Languages?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Dec 92 00:01:50."
<m0mx40t-00013lC@draco.bison.mb.ca>
X-Face: %q"[Odr2u&o(@]W>9%kwwJ/Td+Ju5!en}ZHQ>G3)9%`RBr7Ct12Dj6LB\Qz@@j|YgfHymB~
Lc>qe:o+U{rh!RVuaYYd{+S4$8tPLu]Y$0<5x>rj-kuS"[eqLFME-('jwXR87s;A3I,=cW*D(><s+w
Yi%=%}H?|1mR`pc0qrR!<y:
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 92 15:37:12 PST
From: Michael P Urban <urban@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov>
(catching up after an illness)
Your message dated: Thu, 03 Dec 92 00:01:50
> > I just don't want to see Minbari speaking perfect English.
>
> Hello,
> I don't want to see all the humans speaking perfect English! I
> certainly know enough who can't speak English terribly well. It could
> be kind of interesting to see how an alien, who has spend vast amounts of
> time learning English, would react to a human who doesn't speak the
> language. :) <!! I spent all that time !! for NOTHING?!?!> :) I think
> the reverse would also be interesting. Based on my human experiences,
> I just can't see how an entire race would only speak ONE language.
>
It seems to me that the question is not whether an entire race would
speak ONLY one language (unlikely), but whether there would be a
single language that could be used by an entire race. For obvious
dramatic reasons, television and film science fiction tends to show
that the Earthfolk of the future will all speak English -- or, at
least, that English is the official language of global-scale
governments or projects, a lingua franca that everyone learns in
addition to his or her own language. It is not always clear whether
`minority' languages such as Icelandic, or even French, survive in any
important way in these futures. Even if these languages and cultures
flourish (as they seem to aboard Babylon 5), the use of American
English as _the_ world language of the future--a future in which
mechanical translation is feasible!--has cultural implications that
some may find disquieting. Imagine how you might feel to discover
that _the_ world language of the future were Japanese or Russian...
It would be sort of nice if the `human standard language' were a
neutral interlanguage along the lines of Esperanto, but this sort of
thing is not particularly easy to sustain (Red Dwarf did a sort of
half-hearted job of using Esperanto on several ship signs) and might
require tedious explanation.
On the other hand, if JMS should decide that Esperanto would be `neat'
as Babylon 5's official interlanguage, I know any number of Esperantists
who would be _happy_ to assist :-)
---
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 23:06:37 -0800 (PST)
From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE))
Message-Id: <921208230637.2ed4@VAX.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: B5 Sound FX, Language, etc...
To: b5@iastate.edu
X-Vmsmail-To: MX%"b5@iastate.edu"
1. While I am a fan of hard SF, I don't think having no sound effects in space
is the way to go. First and foremost are simply dramatic reasons. I don't
think seeing a spaceship go zooming by in complete silence has the same sort
of drama as one creating an, albiet unrealistic, zooming sound. I suppose
you could try to make up for that with the musical score, but having every
scene with a ship in it become a musical interlude, as in 2001, just won't
work on a weekly basis.
The second reason is ratings. B5 cannot survive wholly on the
viewership of us SF hardcores. Most fans of the show will be people with
little of no knowledge of SF beyond Star Wars, Star Trek, and Alien. If these
people are going to accept the show, I think some consessions ,such as sound
in space, must be made.
2. Languages- I like the idea of the translator/murmuring effect. I thought
it worked very well in Dune. Those of you who are impatient for some actual
alien language have got to remember that the series isn't even in production
yet. When they get the go ahead, I'm sure we will see some development in this
topic.
3. Opening Credits- Could someone who is in contact with JMS suggest to him
that he not make the opening credits for the series too long. You can see
how ST:TNG has handicapped itself with an incredibley long title sequence.
I understand that an episode of TNG is only 42 minutes long!. I hope B5
will avoid an excessively long sequence in favor of geater story length.
4. Space ships- Could someone who has seen the pilot comment on wether any
seens of the Earth/Minbari war at "The Line" are shown. I am especially
interseted in whether any Earth Allience fighter ships are shown. Right
now I'm begining to think the only ships in the pilot are Vorlon.
5. Finally- Whats up with these *.txt.Z files at hyperion FTP. Are these
compressed or something. I can't get anything but gibberish from them.
I'm kind of a novice so you'll have to excuse my ignorance.
Thats all for now.
---
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 05:08:08 MST
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Message-Id: <9212091208.AA10766@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: PTEN feed
Tuesday night at 8:00pm (pst) there was a new 15-minute PTEN promo feed.
It was called the "PTEN Pre-Launch Promos (Phase One)". Pretty good stuff.
There were several versions from 1:30 to :15 in length, all with lots
of great clips from Time Trax and B5 (and yes, krun fooey as well).
They used plenty of short "action" scenes and other interesting tidbits.
Quite a few of the B5 scenes were not in the previous feeds...
Here is the network "catch phrase":
A NEW KIND OF EXCITEMENT
A NEW KIND OF ADVENTURE
A NEW KIND OF ACTION
A NEW KIND OF EXPERIENCE
A NEW KIND OF TELEVISION
THE PRIME TIME ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK
---
Check for a refeed on Wednesday, but of course the MAJOR event for
Wednesday will still be the 55-MINUTE ST:DSN Video Press Kit! :->
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 9 Dec 92 17:46:57 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: B5 PTEN Feed and ST:DS9 Feed Info?
Message-Id: <00039592.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
In Dean Adams post on the PTEN promo feed, he also mentioned the ST:DS9 Press
Kit feed? A refeed of the B5 PTEN promos I assume were on T301, transponder
3, as with the earlier promos. If anyone has the details on the ST:DS9
Electronic Press Kit feed, please email it to me or post it to the mailing
list. I'm assuming that the info has been posted to USENET, but my access is
limited during the day. email me ASAP at P14942@email.mot.com or at my
Compuserve account 76044.502@compuserve.com.
---
Subject: B5 (mis)translations
To: B5@iastate.edu
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 13:21:19
From: Colin Stobbe <sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Hello,
I was thinking about the computer translators, and all of a sudden, it
stuck me. Monty Python. What would happen if someone were to creatively
reprogram the computer, in the same sort of manner as Alexander Yahlt wrote
a Hungarian-English phrase book, translating "Can you direct me to the
station" into "Please fondle my bum" in one of the Monty Python episodes.
Then again, it'd get kind of silly.
---
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 14:27:09 -0800 (PST)
From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE))
Message-Id: <921210142709.4e7d@VAX.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: B5, MST3K, and DS9
To: b5@iastate.edu
X-Vmsmail-To: MX%"b5@iastate.edu"
I think I found a reference in B5 to the Comedy Central show "Mystery Science
Theater 3000." In "Mystery Science Theater", or MST3k, as its known to its
fans, a guy is sranded in space with some robots he built and force to watch
really bad SF movies. The guy and the robots survive by mercilously heckling
the movies with jokes and references and can be seen, sihouetted at the bottom
of the screen.
How does this relate to B5? Well, first of all, the robots are
collectively to as "the 'bots." This is a term that JMS used to describe
the maintanece droids in the July compilation of GEnie stuff. A more
specific reference is that the droids have appearntly been named "CamBots".
This is the same name that has been given to the camera in MST3K.
I'm pretty sure JMS watchs, or at least has seen the show, since
several of the writers were supposed to be his guests on "Hour-25" before
he left.
On the subject of DS9- I don't know about the rest of the country, but
here in LA we've been getting a weekly DS9 preview from the local station
that will air it (cooincidently, the same station that B5 will be on).
The've shown the sets, and I must say they look a little more
impressive than the B5 sets due to their sheer size (and sheer budget, I'm
sure). The space station itself is kind of silly though. It's ring-shaped!
Why would anyone who has artificial gravity bother to shape a space station
like a ring. Well, that's Star Trek for you.
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 10 Dec 92 23:05:01 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: B5 & Cambot
Message-Id: <00039EC9.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
Back when the Starlog Spectacular first appeared I noticed the "Cambot" and
asked about it on GEnie. It turns out that was the name the computer designer
gave it and thus Starlog used that name. I pointed out the MST3K connection
to Joe, and he had already noticed it and talked to the designer about that.
It's called something else in the show (if it is even refered to onscreen).
---
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:10:57 -0800 (PST)
From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE))
Message-Id: <921212181057.6efe@VAX.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Mike Okuda on B5 and DS9
To: b5@iastate.edu
X-Vmsmail-To: MX%"b5@iastate.edu"
Though this bit of information is a few months old, I've noticed that most
of you on the list don't live in CA, so you probably haven't heard it.
Mike Okuda and Rick Sternbach (the designers of most of the ST:TNG technology),
were on the "hour-25" radio show a while back. A caller asked about the pairs
thoughts on B5, especially the graphics, which the caller was appearently
impressed with. Okuda stated that he couldn't see how they could do the
visuals using only computer graphics. He also said he was looking to seeing
because he could finally watch a show he didn't know everything about.
Here's what I consider to be the most interesting comment, though. Okuda
was doing a breif description of Deep Space Nine. He commented on how DS9
would have a bathroom with all sorts of contraptions to accomadate various
alien life. Just before I heard this I wasn't all that down on DS9, not
that I was very exicited about it. However, after hearing this comment, I
got really mad. I had heard JMS make almost identicle comments about B5
several months before on an episode of "Hour-25" he was hosting.
JMS, as you probably know, made similar comments in the Aug? Starlog.
Some people say that DS9 isn't a rip-off to B5, but just similar. With such
specific similarities between the show I don't see how that can be. It's
a rip-off, pure and simple.
GIF: I'd like to thank everyone who gave me advice in transfering GIFs
from Hyperion. Unfortunaltely they still don't seem to work. I gave
the "bin" command before transfering to my vax account, and then download
to my computer with Kermit. I'm using Vuimg to show the GIFs, but when I try
I either get a blank white screen or an "unexpected end of GIF file message".
I'm pretty sure vuimg is OK since I successfully transfered and viewed
the old B5 logo sent through the list. I'm sorry if I'm bugging anyone
with this request, but this is the last time all ask. Please send or post
advice.
Thanks in advance
Brett Jaffee
---
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:28:46 -0500
From: "Ivan A. Gonzales" <wombat@eng.umd.edu>
Message-Id: <199212130428.AA28030@pepsi.eng.umd.edu>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda on B5 and DS9
> From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE))
> Some people say that DS9 isn't a rip-off to B5, but just similar. With such
> specific similarities between the show I don't see how that can be. It's
> a rip-off, pure and simple.
>
If JMS had any real evidence to prove this, he would and should take it
to court. Until he does, speculation is all well and good, but it doesn't
mean anything. JMS believes that DS9 ripped him off. Fine, where's the
evidence beyond some similarities (in actuality, the shows are very
different) that don't amount to a whole lot.
And there's really only one piece of evidence that would convince me,
something I have seen *noone*, JMS included, even hint at. Were either
Michael Piller or Rick Berman present during the pitch of B5 to
Paramount? Did they read the bible? Otherwise, this is all just a lot
of talk intended to get some attention focused on B5 using competition
with DS9. Sure, it's worked to some degree. And don't tell me JMS
isn't happy about *that*. You bet he is.
On a related note, the Deep Space Nine Electronic Press kit was
*impressive*. They've spent a lot of money on the premiere, and
it *shows*. I was even more impressed with the special effects on DS9
than I was for B5, and B5's were excellent. It looks great.
Jose Gonzalez
---