Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 23:16:53 -0600
From: techy@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <9212010516.AA26097@iastate.edu>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: FTP SITE!!!
Thanks to Steven Grimm we now have a FTP site for B5 info, gifs, whatever.
It is located at: ftp.hyperion.com in directory /pub/Babylon-5
If you have naything to add to the directory, place it in the /incoming
directory and send email to kereth@hyperion.com indicating the filename and what
it is.
Again, thanks Steve!
As a result, i will not be filling requests for Digests.
-Troy
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 1 Dec 92 15:35:05 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Loscon, Writer's Digest, etc
Message-Id: <000370DB.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
I havne't seen anything on the mailing list on the Loscon presentation.
From reports on GEnie, the showing of the pilot went over very well. On hand
from the show were Patricia Tallman and Jerry Doyle as well as one of the
computer effects people, Mojo, who has been turning up on GEnie of late.
Harlan Ellison and David Gerrold were there as well, but mainly to watch.
After the showing of the pilot, Joe showed a three minute segment of the movie
that had Stewart Copeland's score added to it, which also got a good response.
For those of you who sent in your $5 for the B5 newsletter, Joe says it will
be out in another week or two. They are holding it back a bit due to some
anticipated news they would like to include with the newsletter. (Maybe a
series commitment from Warner Bros?).
In checking next weeks TV Guide, they are repeating the Quantum Leap episode
with Tamyln Tomita on Tuesday night (Dec 8th, 8 pm ET/PT, 7 CT/MT).
One other thing Joe mentioned on GEnie is that he will be taking some time off
from his Writer's Digest column and has just prepared his last column for a
while.
For those that are interested in the "other" space station show, I have posted
to USENET the sat feed info for "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" which includes
info on the premiere episode as well as the weekly schedule.
---
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 09:01:24 -0600
From: techy@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <9212011501.AA09217@iastate.edu>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: JMS GIFs again...
Cc: koreth@hyperion.com
Well.. two files are in /incoming at ftp.hyperion.com...
jms.gif 253 X 374 X 256
jms2.gif 506 X 748 X 256 (for those who wanted poster size)
Heh.
---
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 09:24:41 -0600
From: techy@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <9212021524.AA00608@iastate.edu>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Othersysde
Well, im about halfway through JMS's book Othersyde... pretty good stuff...
started reading it yesterday.. up o page 165. Heh.... He has a funny wit..
for instance a section on page 165...
"Chris?" his moher called from downstairs. "Your show us on. You want to
watch i?"
Chris looked at the maze of transistors, springs, and bits of metal
spread out over his bed. "Babylon 5" was one of his favorite programs, the
only decent science-fitction series on TV.
I just about fell out of my chair laughing! Another one, in the beginning
of the book went something like...
"I'm (in italics" Mister Huntington." he said, stressing the mister. Chris
didn't know anyone could actually speak in italics.
Heh... just thought id share those two with ya. :)
---
Date: 2 Dec 92 12:55:22 EST
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Re: Othersysde
To: techy@iastate.edu
Cc: ms@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921202125522.848@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5.
> Well, im about halfway through JMS's book Othersyde... pretty good stuff...
> started reading it yesterday.. up o page 165. Heh.... He has a funny wit..
> for instance a section on page 165...
>
Yeah, JMS does have a very interesting sense of humor, which he
will bring to the show. In fact, it shows up in the pilot. Some of
you may have heard about "Beep Beep" on Genie. Let it just be said
that that was an addition scene/line that JMS came up with during
shooting. When he took it to the director, the comment was something
to the effect of "You have a sick mind. I love it!" You'll have to
wait for the pilot to get it - I'm not saying any more.
Also, when he was at Wishcon, he spoke very affectionately of
pulling "mindfucks" on the audience. For example, these characters
will be far from static. He intends to build up a certain image of
them, and then to turn things upside down, inside out, and back
again. Or another example... Anybody notice that Minbari Ambassador
Delenn is referred to as "him," but is being played by a woman?
Just another one of the many reasons I'm _really_ looking foward
to this show!
BTW, Troy, my apologies, but you're going to get two copies of
this thing. I think I'm also going to send it to the group, but I
can't get out of writing this to you without loosing it all. Sorry!
---
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1992 15:12 CST
From: KOSHELEV@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: B5 Alien Languages?
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <01GRUF53QBO000024U@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU>
X-Vms-To: IN%"b5@iastate.edu"
I'm very curious as to what JMS intends to do along the lines of having
authentic :-) languages for each of the non-Terran races in B5.
(JMS, do you receive mail from this list? If so, I have some suggestions.)
Does anyone have any information as to how this'll work on B5?
Or are we going to have to suffer yet another science fiction series that
has every alien, and even every inhabitant from Earth speaking perfect
American Television English [tm]?
Please, JMS, tell me you won't fall into this same trap that completely
blows any sense of (suspended) reality while watching 85% of any Star Trek
episode. Admittedly, at least by ST:TMP somebody finally thought to have
the Klingons speak in Klingon. I just don't want to see Minbari speaking
perfect English. Or any moronic ideas like ST's universal translators that
are the size of a otoscope.
Linguistically concerned,
Dave Sturm
koSHelev@ducvax.auburn.edu
---
Date: 2 Dec 92 17:22:19 EST
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Re: B5 Alien Languages?
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921202172219.870@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5.
For those that weren't aware, JMS has commented on how he will handle
alien languages.
Many of the aliens on Babylon 5 will not speak english. What
will happen is that when they speak, and translator program will
translate whatever they're saying into english or whatever.
However, we will still hear the original speaker, in his own
language, with the computer speaking the translation over the top of
that.
This will not apply to all, though. Many of the alien races,
particularly the other Big 4, saw fit to take the time to learn the
human language, seeing as it would be a great benefit to them and
make communication a lot easier.
So, there will be those that have learned english, and those that
have to rely on a computer to translate for them. He is also
definitely keeping it in mind to do a story where communication
becomes a problem for a couple of aliens. (knowing his sense of
humor, I think he'd take some sadistic pleasure at putting a couple
characters in such a situation)
Well, anyway, that's they way I understand that it'll be working.
We'll find out for certain eventually.
---
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 18:07:58 EST
From: msy@cadillac.siemens.com (Marcus S. Yoo)
Message-Id: <9212022307.AA17469@cadillac.siemens.com>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: re: B5 Alien Languages?
> ... about JMS's comments on computer translating alien languages...
Okay, so we'll here both the alien and the computer translation at
the same time. How about when two aliens are talking to each other?
Will they use the computer translation so that the viewer can keep
up with the story? Will they magically speak English to each other?
How about english subtitles like they do/did in ST movies and STNG?
--
Date: 02 Dec 1992 14:57:42 -0800
From: chris@univrs.decnet.lockheed.com
(Chris Rhode, LPARL VAX Software Support Lead)
Subject: Alien languages
To: "b5@iastate.edu"@eagle.decnet.lockheed.com
Cc: CHRIS@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
Message-Id: <9212022257.AA24317@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
I like the concept of hearing the alien language with the computer translation
"overlaying" it. Kinda like was done with the Guild Navigators (?) in Dune. I
think that, within reason, computer translation of alien languages is
believeable. I have my doubts about a "universal translator" a la Star Trek,
but you never know ...
Myself, I'm more concerned about whether or not the spaceships make
"whooshing" sounds in space :-}
Cheers,
-Chris Rhode
---
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 15:27:26 -0800
Message-Id: <9212022327.AA24929@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com>
From: chris@univrs.decnet.lockheed.com
To: "b5@iastate.edu"@eagle.decnet.lockheed.com
Cc: CHRIS@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: More on translation
>Okay, so we'll here both the alien and the computer translation at
>the same time. How about when two aliens are talking to each other?
Hee.
Is there one central computer somewhere on the station that does all
this translation? Given that this station is going to have lots of
different aliens in a politically diverse (and sometimes heated) environment,
one can imagine the "fun" one could have in the above case by reprogramming
the translator to substitute words and phrases of one's choosing in the
translation. Shades of Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, when some phrase
of Arthur Dent's just managed to pass through a time/space vortex into
the midst of negotitations between two alien races, and his phrase, in one
of the alien's languages, turned out to be a terrible insult :-}
Cheers,
-Chris Rhode
---
Date: 2 Dec 92 23:16:21 EST
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Ship Noises
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921202231621.896@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5.
> Date: 02 Dec 1992 14:57:42 -0800
> From: chris@univrs.decnet.lockheed.com
> (Chris Rhode, LPARL VAX Software Support Lead)
> Subject: Alien languages
>
> Myself, I'm more concerned about whether or not the spaceships make
> "whooshing" sounds in space :-}
>
This is something else that was brought up at Wishcon last month.
Due to sound effects not yet having been added, many of the exteriors
had no sound. Several people commented that they hoped it would stay
that way for realism, but JMS told us it would not stay that way.
The reason was that without _some_ sort of noise, the dramatic moment
would be completely lost. The majority of us were forced to agree.
However, he also said that he would try and keep it subdued, and
showed some interest in the idea of trying to make the ships sound
like they would if you were, say, in contact with the ship (or
something to that effect).
So, the ships will make engine noises, but not the "whooshing"
sounds often heard on startrek, particularly at impulse speeds....
---
Subject: Re: B5 Alien Languages?
To: B5@iastate.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 0:01:50
From: Colin Stobbe <sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca>
In-Reply-To: <01GRUF53QBO000024U@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU>; from "ducvax.auburn.edu!KOSHELEV" at Dec 2, 92 3:12 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
> I just don't want to see Minbari speaking perfect English.
Hello,
I don't want to see all the humans speaking perfect English! I
certainly know enough who can't speak English terribly well. It could
be kind of interesting to see how an alien, who has spend vast amounts of
time learning English, would react to a human who doesn't speak the
language. :) <!! I spent all that time !! for NOTHING?!?!> :) I think
the reverse would also be interesting. Based on my human experiences,
I just can't see how an entire race would only speak ONE language.
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 04:14:58 PST
From: Mark Yvanovich -LSOC at KSC <marky@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>
Message-Id: <9212031214.AA13902@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: re: B5 Alien Languages?
Colin Stobe <sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca> writes:
>... Based on my human experiences,
>I just can't see how an entire race would only speak ONE language.
As I look at how much has changed in the area of communication in the
last century (or just the last decade) I can forsee a time when there
will be one language used globally and understood by a high percentage
of the worlds population. I think eventually all local dialects will
just become accents in the global language. Usenet is a good example
of how a global language becomes the accepted standard.
Peace,
Marky
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 06:18:16 MST
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Message-Id: <9212031318.AA10716@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: showing
>> Myself, I'm more concerned about whether or not the spaceships make
>> "whooshing" sounds in space :-}
Hmmm... well, i've always thought this was an especially silly subject. :->
I really can't think of anything LESS important than "sounds in space".
What I am concerned with are good scripts and characters. Who cares if
a ship "humms" or whatever? Perhaps on occasion, in 70mm, on a big screen,
in a theatre, etc... "silence" can be used to some artistic advantage.
But on *TV* things are a little different, and it hardly matters anyway.
>Due to sound effects not yet having been added, many of the exteriors
>had no sound. Several people commented that they hoped it would stay
>that way for realism,
If people want "realism", then they would probably be a lot better off
staying away from science fiction. Just stick to textbooks and such. :-)
Besides, what is "real" about a huge space station, Vorlons, Minbari,
hyperspace, etc. There is nothing wrong with good sound effects.
>but JMS told us it would not stay that way.
Of course not. He knows too much about how to make a good show.
>The reason was that without _some_ sort of noise, the dramatic moment
>would be completely lost. The majority of us were forced to agree.
Nobody will be forced to *watch* at least, and there is always
the option of taking an axe to the tv's speaker...<heh>
> So, the ships will make engine noises, but not the "whooshing"
>sounds often heard on startrek, particularly at impulse speeds....
Humming, whooshing, what does it really matter? Making a great show
is what matters, and having "silence" all the time is certainly not
the way to do it.
I like "real" space as much as anyone. I happen to have HUNDREDS of
shows on tape about "real" space, but I still think worrying about
"whooshing" is about the most meaningless thing imaginable...
Now the *language* thing is a little more relevant argument, as well
as how nearly all the "aliens" in Star Trek seem to be humanoid bipeds.
It looks like B5 will have a lot more "realism" in those areas, and that
is something which can really contribute to the substance of the show.
Having "silence" would detract from it...
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1992 08:07 CST
From: KOSHELEV@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: B5 Alien Languages?
To: rblewitt@synporin.ucsd.edu
Cc: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <01GRVELXBEEO0008HZ@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU>
X-Vms-To: IN%"rblewitt@synporin.UCSD.EDU"
X-Vms-Cc: IN%"b5@iastate.edu"
From: IN%"rblewitt@synporin.UCSD.EDU" 2-DEC-1992 15:42:03.43
Subj: RE: B5 Alien Languages?
>Well the following is from the faq list.
>7. What kinds of Language are used?
> As for language...most times, since other groups know that they're
>going to a station run by the Earth Alliance, they'll take time to get
>the basic language down. But, of course, there are always equivilants
>of the Ugly American who doesn't have the time. In those cases, there
>will be a computerized translator, under which we will faintly hear their
>actual language. And, from time to time, it could be fun to have two
>different species at an impasse because neither understands the other.
>Is this good enough for you?
No, it is not. If we "faintly hear their actual language", I would like
to know what JMS intends us to hear if we isolated it alone. I'll lose any
respect for B5 if he intends only have made-up mumbling. Language is intimately
tied into action. The languages spoken by the alien races should reflect
their style of thinking, thus the translation of these languages should do
likewise.
A Terran example is the difference between a language like Mandarin Chinese
which does not utilize endings, suffixes, prefixes, etc. as does an Indo-
European language such as German or even what English once was. This goes
a long way in making Oriental civilizations foreign to European ones.
Again, I really would like to know who JMS has creating appropriate languages
for B5 alien races. Since he keeps spouting and touting that B5 will be TV's
first *real* science-fiction show, I just want to see him put his monnais
where his mouth is, and also show a proper concern for the linguistics of
his alien races.
I've got background in the area, and that is why I'm crossing my fingers that
JMS will take this issue seriously, and not pass it off. It's not at all
expensive or difficult to create an appropriate language or system. It's
been done recently by Dr Marc Okrand vis-a-vis ST's Klingon language (excuse
me, I should say >tlhIngan Hol<! >tlhingan Hol Dajatlh'a'?<) by Dr Zamenhof
in the 1800's in creating the popular Esperanto, and so on.
I could create an appropriate Minbari within a couple of weeks for example
that would typify Minbari civilization--as I'm sure many others can do also.
And we don't really charge that much :-).
Dave Sturm.
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 3 Dec 92 15:39:39 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: B5 rumour resurfacing & E! BTS
Message-Id: <00037CBE.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
As evidenced by a post on USENET and a message to Joe on Compuserve, the
"replacement" rumor is getting a second life due to the Sf-Lovers Digest.
The original message has been included in the most recent one (which compiles
posts from the rec.arts.sf.* groups and sends them out via email). The
compiler apparently did not include any of the followup messages shooting down
the rumor so people just now seeing the message are bringing the rumor up
again. I left a message to Joe on Compuserve explaining this so hopefully he
won't get too upset this time around. Chances are it will pop up from time to
time like the ST:TNG rumor that Peter Gabriel and Annie Lennox will guest
star as Ferengi lovers. This originated from a joke made by Dana Carvey on
the MTV video awards last September. MTV has recently repeated the show so
the rumor has popped up again on USENET at least.
Also, finally got to see the E! Behind the Scenes last night. If they remove
"Bad Bob" from it, it does give a good look "behind the scenes" of B5.
The original plan was for the show to be provided to local stations to
promote B5. From comments by JMS, "Bad Bob" may be excised from the show
before that happens. About the best part of the segments with Bob were the
shots of the Vorlon encounter suit and G'Kar's mask.
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1992 11:05:58 -0400
To: b5@iastate.edu, Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
From: mss1@cornell.edu (Michael S Shappe)
X-Sender: mshappe@harper-hall.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Ship Noises
At 23.16 92.12.02 -0500, Matt Schmitt wrote:
>Several people commented that they hoped it would stay
>that way for realism, but JMS told us it would not stay that way.
>The reason was that without _some_ sort of noise, the dramatic moment
>would be completely lost. The majority of us were forced to agree.
>However, he also said that he would try and keep it subdued, and
>showed some interest in the idea of trying to make the ships sound
>like they would if you were, say, in contact with the ship (or
>something to that effect).
As I recall, the rationales he used (both 'internal' and 'external') were
fairly sensible and clearly well thought out.
The 'external' answer, or, perhaps better put, the answer to the question
'Why must we have noise in outer space?' is, as you say, the drama of the
moment... particularly things like explosions and decelerations (and
assumedly accelerations, although there were none seen in the pilot) from
Hyperspace via the Jump Port. When you see that lovely flash as a ship
comes out of H'space, half the impact is lost if there isn't SOME sort of
noise. The impression I got from the Q&A session was that outer space
noises *would be avoided* except when absolutely necessary for dramatic
impact, and that music would be used instead (a la 2001).
As an aside - was I the only one having 2001 flashbacks watching the pilot?
Not to say that the pilot was long and drawn out and overly cerebral :-).
Rather, that, because of the lack of sound effect, many of the space scenes
had the same sort of feel.
Anyway, the 'internal' answer I remembe him giving, or the answer to the
question 'HOW can you have sound in outer space?' actually made sense to
this comparatively ignorant type. B5 is located near a nebula or some other
region where there's lots of gas floating about. Well, why can't one have
sound in space? Because there's nothing to carry the sound waves. But, if
you have lots of gas floating about, then you *do* have something to carry
the sound waves. So, while loud whooshes and bangs shouldn't be possible,
there *should* be *some* sound.
Would our GEnie contact maybe like to get JMS to comment? :-)
Uncle Mikey
B5 Convert :-)
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 09:49:38 MST
From: jacque@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Jacque Marshall)
Message-Id: <9212031649.AA29499@niwot.scd.ucar.EDU>
Received: by niwot.scd.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90)
id AA29499; Thu, 3 Dec 92 09:49:38 MST
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Sounds ...
Cc: jacque@ncar.ucar.edu
>
>>> Myself, I'm more concerned about whether or not the spaceships make
>>> "whooshing" sounds in space :-}
>
> Hmmm... well, i've always thought this was an especially silly subject. :->
> I really can't think of anything LESS important than "sounds in space".
> What I am concerned with are good scripts and characters. Who cares if
> a ship "humms" or whatever? Perhaps on occasion, in 70mm, on a big screen,
> in a theatre, etc... "silence" can be used to some artistic advantage.
> But on *TV* things are a little different, and it hardly matters anyway.
>
Well, yes and no. I think it goes to the philosophy behind the show. Are
we going to make an effort to think this thing through, or are we going
to do _Lost_In_Space_? From the FAQ:
>
> JMS set several criteria for developing a science fiction TV series:
>
> 1) It would have to be good science fiction.
>
This, to me, implies some commitment to technical accuracy/plausibility.
"Good science fiction" = good SCIENCE fiction, as well as good science
FICTION. However, it occurs to me that this might be my inference, not
JMS's implication.
How 'bout it, Joe? Where do you stand regarding "scientific accuracy?"
That is to say, are the scripts going to be reviewed for technical
accuracy, or are you going to have the writers do the best they can
and not worry about it?
>>
>> Due to sound effects not yet having been added, many of the exteriors
>> had no sound. Several people commented that they hoped it would stay
>> that way for realism,
>
> If people want "realism", then they would probably be a lot better off
> staying away from science fiction. Just stick to textbooks and such. :-)
> Besides, what is "real" about a huge space station, Vorlons, Minbari,
> hyperspace, etc. There is nothing wrong with good sound effects.
>
Oy! Have you been following the the "diamond-hard sf" flamewar that's
been raging in rec.arts.sf.* newsgroups? Gevalt!
To me, a "good script" also tackles the inconvenient aspects of your
dramatic setting, too. If you can just bend your physical laws to suit
your storyline--what's the point? (This is my chief complaint with a
lot of the fantasy that gets published, and why *most* TV sf is a
complete write-off as far as its sf goes.) To me, the whole story
becomes meaningless at that point.
>
>> but JMS told us it would not stay that way.
>
> Of course not. He knows too much about how to make a good show.
>
>> The reason was that without _some_ sort of noise, the dramatic moment
>> would be completely lost. The majority of us were forced to agree.
I believe this was Roddenberry's rationale for having the Enterprise
"whoosh" by (the original genesis of this discussion, wasn't it, Chris?).
However, I agree that it can be handled accurately *and* artistically.
I didn't see the showing, but, no, Michael, you aren't alone. 2001
comes immediately to mind.
> but I still think worrying about
> "whooshing" is about the most meaningless thing imaginable...
I disagree. I think attention to the details add or detract a tremendous
amount to the dramatic impact. The classic example here is _Star_Wars_.
The eternal problem with media sf has been that you seem to get ONE
or the OTHER. It's my impression that Joe's ambition is to have a go
at doing BOTH.
I'm just dying of curiosity to see what he comes up with.
--jm
---
Date: 3 Dec 92 13:08:32 EST
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Re: Ship Noises
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921203130831.945@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5.
> Anyway, the 'internal' answer I remembe him giving, or the answer to the
> question 'HOW can you have sound in outer space?' actually made sense to
> this comparatively ignorant type. B5 is located near a nebula or some other
> region where there's lots of gas floating about. Well, why can't one have
> sound in space? Because there's nothing to carry the sound waves. But, if
> you have lots of gas floating about, then you *do* have something to carry
> the sound waves. So, while loud whooshes and bangs shouldn't be possible,
> there *should* be *some* sound.
>
Well, actually, that explanation really won't work here. As a
studying astronomer, I can tell you that the density of gas, even in
a nebula, is generally _very_ low. I'm pretty certain it's too low
to carry sound waves. And besides, they're not in the nebula,
they're near it, thereby reducing the gas levels even _more_. Add to
this that they're near a planet, who's gravity could grab hold of
more loose interstellar gas that might be around, and we're talking
about some pretty empty space.
So, scientifically speaking, I don't think that sound would
really be transmitted very well, if at all, through the space around
B5.
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 11:01:21 -0800
Message-Id: <9212031901.AA08874@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com>
From: chris@univrs.decnet.lockheed.com
To: "b5@iastate.edu"@eagle.decnet.lockheed.com
Cc: CHRIS@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Reality, Science Fact, etc.
Well, I kinda think that we need to give J. Michael something of a break
here. Probably his "wish list" for the show far exceeds what he is able to
actually produce due to time, energy and budget constraints. I think it is
unrealistic to expect him to create "authentic" languages for all of the alien
races, and have every script scrutinized for scientific accuracy, etc. It bugs
me that with ST:TNG, I will often see an episode that I -know- has plot holes
or scientific flaws, and yet I -enjoy it- immensely, and all I hear in
rec.arts.startrek is people flaming about the plot holes and scientific flaws.
I think it is obvious that he is trying his best within constraints to do
things "right". Just as an example, the translations overlying the actual
alien languages sounds like an excellent concept to me, more realistic that
most other mechanisms used. (Didn't it bug anybody in the Last Starfighter
than when those translator gadgets got slapped on people, all the aliens' lips
started being synched to the english they were 'speaking'? :-)
-Chris
---
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1992 11:54:36 -0800 (PST)
From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE))
Message-Id: <921203115436.984a@VAX.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Sounds in space
To: b5@iastate.edu
X-Vmsmail-To: MX%"b5@iastate.edu"
Well, the nebula explanation for sound in space sounded pretty reasonable,
at least until someone shot it down. If that doesn't work, how about
this rationalization....
When a spaceship goes by and you hear wooshin g, roarin etc., you are not
hearing an actual sound from the ship. Instead, what you hear is an audio
translation of the ships electro-magnetic signature. This is sort of like
when the people at NASA or JPL play the "sounds" of Jupiter's magnetic
field captured by the Voyager spacecraft. Of course, if you were in orbit
of Jupiter you wouldn't actually hear anything, but if you turned on a radio
you could get an approximation of what things might sound like if you
could hear radio waves.
Well, it works for me, anyway.
---
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com
Date: 3 Dec 92 19:55:05 GMT
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: B5 posting to rec.arts.sf.tv
Message-Id: <00037F28.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe>
With the increased traffic on the mailing list of late, it might be a good
idea to try to move some of the discussions to USENET on rec.arts.sf.tv.
If we could get the amount of traffic on there that we've been having on the
mailing list of late, we might be able to create a new newsgroup shortly after
the pilot airs. We've definitely found that there are people interested in
the show and are willing to discuss it. To make things easier on the people
who don't want to see a lot of B5 postings on the net, be sure to start your
message header with a B5: (or should we use BAB5 so people don't confuse it
with Blake's 7?). The "rumour" definitely got some traffic going and I have
seen several "What is Babylon 5" posts, mainly in the Star Trek groups.
I'm planning on trying to post part of the B5 FAQL weekly, making a lot of
the storyline info a separate archive file since a lot of that info is now
available in Cinefantastique and is really a lot of spoiler info.
As a side note on ST:DSN, the QVC home shopping channel will have a Deep Space
Nine special this Saturday (2pm to 5pm) with Michael Piller as the guest.
I would expect them to show some clips from the show. Anyone want to
volunteer to buy something so they can talk to Piller on air and ask him about
Babylon 5? (Or at least mention Babylon 5 in a question so that viewers will
know it is also coming?)
---
Date: 03 Dec 1992 18:48:26 -0700 (MST)
From: JIM YINGST <YINGST@ccit.arizona.edu>
Subject: sound, languages and ftp sites
To: b5@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <01GRVZ6YKX4I90OA7M@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
X-Envelope-To: b5@iastate.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"b5@iastate.edu"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
There's another way to rationalize "sound in space". We could assume that
the sounds we hear are those heard *by people inside the ship(s)*, even though
we are seeing an exterior view. After all, we accept it when we hear two
pilots talking over the radio to each other, even though the camera is "out in
space" where it shouldn't be able to "hear" anything. We could then also hear
engine noises, if they are heard by the people inside the ship. Of course,
the people in one ship won't hear engine noises from another ship, but for
that we can assume (as said by others) that the shipboard radio/sensors pick
up some sort of EM signature (static, to our ears) from other ships, which is
what we all hear. It would be nice if B5 made it clear that this was the case,
perhaps by interspersing "static" into the sounds we hear. They could also
put in some "sound-free" segments, to make the point to everyone that There Is
No Sound In Space (tm).
On another front, I think that the planned handling of alien languages sounds
*great*, and I don't think that JMS et al should be expected to create a large
number of diverse *complete* languages. It would be good for each spoken
language to have a recognizable character to it which stays consistent, but I
really don't care if what I hear came from The Official Handbook Of The Vorlon
Language (c), or if some clever person with some linguistic talent just made up
some gibberish that *sounds good*. Perhaps some of the languages will be worked
out in detail, but I would assume that there will be enough different languages
floating around that often the writers will have to make things up on the spot.
Also, I'd like to see some languages which are not audible at all - perhaps
visual, tactile, or ultrasonic. Let's see variety! Based on what I have heard
so far from JMS, I have high hopes for this aspect of the series.
Lastly - I can't seem to connect to the ftp site at hyperion.com. Is it
working? If so, can anyone give me an IP number or other helpful hints?
Helpful email would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Jim Yingst yingst@ccit.arizona.edu
---
Subject: re: B5 Alien Languages?
To: b5@iastate.edu
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 92 2:21:26
From: Colin Stobbe <sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca>
In-Reply-To: <9212031214.AA13902@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>; from "Mark Yvanovich -LSOC at KSC" at Dec 3, 92 4:14 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
> >... Based on my human experiences,
> >I just can't see how an entire race would only speak ONE language.
>
> As I look at how much has changed in the area of communication in the
> last century (or just the last decade) I can forsee a time when there
> will be one language used globally and understood by a high percentage
> of the worlds population. ...
I think I could agree with you that there will be one language
understood by a high percentage of the worlds population, but with
trillions of people out there, I'd think you could probobly find a few
who wouldn't know it.
> ... I think eventually all local dialects will
> just become accents in the global language. Usenet is a good example
> of how a global language becomes the accepted standard.
Never seen messages in languages other than English? You haven't
been looking hard enough :)
> Peace,
> Marky
> --
> Don't assume that I know what I'm talking about...
I never make these sorts of assumptions ;)
> Thoughts and feelings, I just let'em out...
> If you don't like'em don't scream and shout...
> Talk to me, we'll work it out...
---
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 92 07:14:12 MST
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Message-Id: <9212041414.AA13881@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: behind the scenes
Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com writes:
>Also, finally got to see the E! Behind the Scenes last night.
I saw it on the first day, and I was pretty impressed. It was great that
we suddenly had all this B5 video. First the PTEN feed, then BtS, and
this weekend SFC will be doing their segment on the show...
>If they remove "Bad Bob" from it, it does give a good look "behind the
>scenes" of B5.
Bad Bob "himself" might have said some pretty stupid things, but I
still liked seeing behind the scenes of B6's "creature shop".
>The original plan was for the show to be provided to local stations to
>promote B5.
Right.
>From comments by JMS, "Bad Bob" may be excised from the show
>before that happens.
Really? So JMS didn't already approve of that program?
>About the best part of the segments with Bob were the
>shots of the Vorlon encounter suit and G'Kar's mask.
Yep...
---
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 92 07:15:41 MST
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Message-Id: <9212041415.AA14010@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
To: b5@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: SNDFX
jacque@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Jacque Marshall) writes:
>> I really can't think of anything LESS important than "sounds in space".
>> What I am concerned with are good scripts and characters. Who cares if
>> a ship "humms" or whatever?
>Well, yes and no. I think it goes to the philosophy behind the show. Are
>we going to make an effort to think this thing through, or are we going
>to do _Lost_In_Space_?
I still don't think SOUND has *any* reflection on that at all.
Sound FX do NOT a LiS make... Not even close.
>> 1) It would have to be good science fiction.
>This, to me, implies some commitment to technical accuracy/plausibility.
Let's hope so...
>"Good science fiction" = good SCIENCE fiction, as well as good science
>FICTION. However, it occurs to me that this might be my inference, not
>JMS's implication.
But a "humming" sound has nothing to do with any of that. It's meaningless.
>That is to say, are the scripts going to be reviewed for technical
>accuracy, or are you going to have the writers do the best they can
>and not worry about it?
I vote for as much "technical accuracy" as possible with Science FICTION.
And once again :->, i'll say that I think "sound in space" is not even
*remotely* an issue of "accuracy"...
>> Besides, what is "real" about a huge space station, Vorlons, Minbari,
>> hyperspace, etc. There is nothing wrong with good sound effects.
>Oy! Have you been following the the "diamond-hard sf" flamewar that's
>been raging in rec.arts.sf.* newsgroups? Gevalt!
Not recently, but a lot of "hard SF" happens to be some of my favorites.
>To me, a "good script" also tackles the inconvenient aspects of your
>dramatic setting, too. If you can just bend your physical laws to suit
>your storyline--what's the point?
Unless you have people "yelling" at each other through spaceship
windows or something, SOUND is just not a relevant issue...
>(This is my chief complaint with a lot of the fantasy that gets published,
Well, i've never really liked "fantasy". I'm mostly all-SF.
>and why *most* TV sf is a complete write-off as far as its sf goes.)
>To me, the whole story becomes meaningless at that point.
Phew... I'm afraid it is just completely incomprehensible to me how anyone
could possibly be so put off (or care at ALL), by a simple little "whoosh".
>>but I still think worrying about "whooshing" is about the
>>most meaningless thing imaginable...
>I disagree.
Fine, but i'll never understand it! :->
>I think attention to the details add or detract a tremendous
>amount to the dramatic impact.
I agree 100%! And adding interesting sound FX is a detail which
is totally for the purpose of adding to dramatic impact...
>The classic example here is _Star_Wars_.
What about it? The "space battle" scenes in Empire and Jedi are about
the very best work of that type ever done. Are you saying those should
have all been TOTALLY SILENT?? I find that impossible to believe, and
it also (obviously) would have been horrible. Some incredible scenes
would have lost almost ALL of their impact.
>I'm just dying of curiosity to see what he comes up with.
Everything i've seen (and heard :) looks EXCELLENT.
-d
---